tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post7733027480130875958..comments2023-03-26T03:47:29.469-04:00Comments on Peter St. Onge: So maybe Lynn Wheeler was right after all...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-31553410568837573752011-02-25T17:10:12.554-05:002011-02-25T17:10:12.554-05:00The voters said NO and she did the opposite. What...The voters said NO and she did the opposite. What's up with that?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03152900024270802090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-65286324017356818582011-02-25T17:08:57.225-05:002011-02-25T17:08:57.225-05:00The voters said NO and she did the opposite. What...The voters said NO and she did the opposite. What's up with that?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03152900024270802090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-18934186317237440992011-02-24T10:25:17.807-05:002011-02-24T10:25:17.807-05:00Speaking of Wheelers did Humpy ever have any type ...Speaking of Wheelers did Humpy ever have any type of association with Humped?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-25664325403085995522011-02-24T10:12:28.060-05:002011-02-24T10:12:28.060-05:00Peter, past conventions won't be a guide for ...Peter, past conventions won't be a guide for us, remember this is Charlotte. Our leadership is so worried about what other people think of us they will spend way too much on this convention in order to impress them. To hell with the impact on the locals. I'm just glad the BMW plant is over the SC border, otherwise the conventioneers would find a new BMW on their pillows!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-78402373021526512062011-02-23T10:59:02.028-05:002011-02-23T10:59:02.028-05:00I am posting in agreement with the Timothy Whitson...I am posting in agreement with the Timothy Whitson post. "we elect public officials to voice OUR opinion about what ought to be done". <br />This trust in public officials has been abused at all levels of our government. So many elected officials, all the way to the White House, seem to feel that they were elected to be our Rulers! Who is surprised that our local elected officials see their election to office the same way. Wheeler"s comment to the effect that they need not have had an open referendum on the uptown arena to begin with, shows the general state of mind of most of the other council members as well. The building of the arena progressed without the voters support. Our Rulers had decided for us And in direct opposition to the voters will. <br /> This disturbs me on so many levels and I think perhaps it does the same for many citizens.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04126730026832122748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-47409514977056594182011-02-22T14:05:26.701-05:002011-02-22T14:05:26.701-05:00Anon, 11:14: We agree that the arena wasn't th...Anon, 11:14: We agree that the arena wasn't the only thing that contributed to Wheeler not getting reelected. As I said in the column, she was overexposed a decade ago, and some had tired of her. <br /><br />Anon, 12:20: If past conventions provide us any guidance, Charlotte won't be a loss at all from the DNC, even after you factor the money we'll put into it.pstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-14213557673201812242011-02-22T12:20:37.891-05:002011-02-22T12:20:37.891-05:00Peter, will it still be the right thing to have do...Peter, will it still be the right thing to have done when the final accounting after the DNC reveals the city taking a large loss? Sure people in one small part of the city will make money, but the city will spend way more than their share of the funds spent locally. Watch, after it is over we'll be talking about cutting services again, and once again the first services mentioned will be police, fire and teachers. The Charlotte pattern all over again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-35211347580609020102011-02-22T11:14:03.633-05:002011-02-22T11:14:03.633-05:00Peter, let me assure you Lynn Wheeler was defeated...Peter, let me assure you Lynn Wheeler was defeated not just for this issue but for a number of others. She was arrogant and openly catered to her uptown weathy elete who could BUY anything they wanted for uptown from local leaders like Wheeler. She took care of them too. <br /><br />She was not as smart as Pat McCrory though. He did the same thing but Wheeler loved to see her self on television or hear her voice on the radio so she jumped at the chance to lead the charge on this issue. Pat watched from the sidelines and took credit for all the success as the media hungry Lyn went donw in flames...three times I think it was at the voting both. <br /><br />People just got sick of her ego and arrogance. To this day I cringe when I hear her on the radio. (For a good read, google her work history at WBTV, that will tell you all you need to know about Lynn Wheeler, the ego.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-1788886659045541382011-02-21T17:28:44.860-05:002011-02-21T17:28:44.860-05:00I'm sure the crooks downtown who will get to h...I'm sure the crooks downtown who will get to hang out with their Dem heroes think it was a great idea. Problem is that the economic impact is vastly overrated and even if it isn't the whole thing only lasts a week so how do you justify building an arena on the hopes that "maybe" you get something like this for one week several years down the road? The people who gain notoriety and wealth from this will get richer and more famous while all the nameless nobodies will get to pay for it. That's why it was voted against in the first place. If the big money wants an arena let them pay for it. They are certainly capable although with the help of useful idiots like Wheeler the have been able to fleece the rest of us. There is nothing heroic or noble about forcing other people to give you their money and then doing something with it that they have made clear they don't want done. Thanks for nothing Lynn. At least the people you steal from and screw over now are allowing to happen by choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-51921628333572133692011-02-21T10:00:27.490-05:002011-02-21T10:00:27.490-05:00Anon, 8:11: I was speaking of property taxes as th...Anon, 8:11: I was speaking of property taxes as the taxes arena opponents had the biggest beef with. The car rental taxes were not new taxes, but a reallocation, so as my column said, no new taxes were added to residents. <br /><br />Peterpstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-39462977364861532852011-02-21T08:57:34.244-05:002011-02-21T08:57:34.244-05:00What a laugh. Wheeler used pics of herself that we...What a laugh. Wheeler used pics of herself that were 30 yrs old and made wrong decisions about everything costing taxpayers billions. Newbies wouldnt understand. Bottom line is self serving big spending "urbane" dumbocrats want everything in a tiny circle uptown while Republicans like to spread out. This is not NYC or LA with rivers oceans or mountains. It is boring flatland Dallas Tx topography.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-26934572678237164942011-02-21T06:43:17.924-05:002011-02-21T06:43:17.924-05:00One thing that's an absolute fact, Lynn Wheele...One thing that's an absolute fact, Lynn Wheeler had the hottest thighs in the history of local government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-61691828212614602092011-02-20T20:21:19.223-05:002011-02-20T20:21:19.223-05:00A certain CO$T "leader" chose that role ...A certain CO$T "leader" chose that role due to sour grapes...in other words he built a McMansion near Quail hollow Country Club, but the PTB wouldnt let him near the employee washroom...another member of that loser posse can't get a job, others throw physical insults against city leaders when it is obvious they have not invested their own money in full length mirrors..even more depend on the wretched WBT for "news". Na na na na na, go ahead and move to SC, we will never miss you!!! You've been threatening for years!!! GO already!!!!meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03969276332718255934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-5475792493917800232011-02-20T20:11:22.184-05:002011-02-20T20:11:22.184-05:00Euro (4:15):
St. Onge has factual errors in the c...Euro (4:15):<br /><br />St. Onge has factual errors in the column itself. For example the funding of the arena is not just from the hotel tax but from a hike in car rental taxes (50% of which are paid by local residents) and from Certificates of Participation (a bond-like instrument that sneaks around the NC Constitution's requirement for voter approval).<br /><br />You yourself called Peter "absolutely ridiculous". Maybe St. Onge's mother has hacked into your account and started defending ol' Pete?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-30595622010680832382011-02-20T19:34:45.129-05:002011-02-20T19:34:45.129-05:00Lynn Wheeler was the sacrificial lamb because she ...Lynn Wheeler was the sacrificial lamb because she absolutely loved the camera and attention while most other members were smart enough to let her run her mouth non stop. I thought we were free at last from all that media attention to her. What now? Is she thinking of trying to run again? Hope not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-566933516006703202011-02-20T16:27:45.191-05:002011-02-20T16:27:45.191-05:00That's some good research, Euro. I was writing...That's some good research, Euro. I was writing columns for the features section then, and was asked to give my impressions of the arena for our front page, which I did. <br /><br />Peterpstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-30759604154130978962011-02-20T16:15:59.878-05:002011-02-20T16:15:59.878-05:00This must be Mr. St. Onge's opening night arti...This must be Mr. St. Onge's opening night article: <br /><br />http://infoweb.newsbank.com/iw-search/we/InfoWeb?p_product=AWNB&p_theme=aggregated5&p_action=doc&p_docid=10DBC2A06ED89D60&p_docnum=23&p_queryname=1<br /><br />It <i>was</i> on page 1A, and it <i>did</i> present a bit of the negative as a juxtaposition to the glitter. At that time, Mr. St. Onge was writing as a reporter, not a columnist, and as such his opinion was not particularly evident in the article. I think a line like "[b]ut depending on your perspective, our new $265 million playground is an impressive blend of artistry and gadgetry - or an extravagant symbol of how not to spend public money" is great!<br /><br />Anonymous 3:18, Mr. St. Onge certainly doesn't need me to defend him, and I agree that you and I probably are more on the same side than opposite sides on both the arena deal itself as well as Ms. Wheeler's tenure. I'm certainly more in agreement with you than I am with Mr. St. Onge about the value of the arena to the city's residents and taxpayers.<br /><br />However, my objection was to the "lying" claim, which you've repeated again. I have never met Mr. St. Onge, but I am aware of his credentials and I do not believe that he is a liar. He didn't interview you? Well, he didn't interview <i>me,</i> either. So? I wonder if he even bothered to interview Michael Jordan, since he seems to be the biggest beneficiary of the taxpayers' largesse. How many people is a columnist obligated to interview for a given column?<br /><br />Really, the column (blog post, whatever) was entitled "So, maybe Lynn Wheeler was..." which sounds to me as if, whether I like her or not, the column would be about...well, Lynn Wheeler. I'm not too fond of Ms. Wheeler or her "legacy", but I was happy to read the column and present some numbers that might contradict some of her rosy claims about what I still think was a horrible decision. Maybe I'd rather Mr. St. Onge hadn't given her yet another opportunity to make excuses for her actions, but I am in no way surprised that the primary source for a column about a conversation with Lynn Wheeler might be...Lynn Wheeler.<br /><br />I find the constant hurling of insults at Observer reporters, columnists, staffers, and editors, however, to be counterproductive, rude, and uncalled-for. You know what I mean; many commenters on regular articles continue to express their burning desire to see the Observer shut down even as they use the Observer's bandwidth to insult the Observer. Such irony.<br /><br />I enjoy reading the Observer and I enjoy commenting on articles and posting on blogs. I see no justification for launching personal attacks at the newspaper or its employees. People who hate them so much probably should simply not waste their valuable time reading their stuff.EuroCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12555177612188585387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-3785595171497471542011-02-20T15:29:33.979-05:002011-02-20T15:29:33.979-05:00Anon 3:18 continues to be wounded that he's no...Anon 3:18 continues to be wounded that he's not one of the folks I spoke to about the arena. Perhaps it would help if he knew I wrote a column for the Observer's front page the day after the arena opened - and in that column I said there were questions about if it was a good thing for Charlotte. That column didn't make arena advocates happy at all, but it, too, came after research and speaking with folks on the issue. <br /><br />I've come to feel differently about the arena. Thanks to Euro for thoroughly presenting real and possible costs. <br /><br />Peterpstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-1095347670863817212011-02-20T15:18:21.474-05:002011-02-20T15:18:21.474-05:00Euro,
1. Is EuroCat your real name? If not then...Euro,<br /><br />1. Is EuroCat your real name? If not then you're as anonymous as I am. Your "profile" shows two blogs, each of which is empty, and no name. Kinda fits the definition of "hiding behind a keyboard"...<br /><br />2. I have no bone to pick with you. In fact you are adding greatly to the discussion here and you know what you're talking about. (Hat tip too to Councilman Cooksey for pointing out the holes in the "gotta be downtown" argument.)<br /><br />3. St. Onge *is* lying when he claims to have "talk(ed) to folks who were wary back then". Remember CO$T? I was one of the leaders and primary spokesmen. If St. Onge had done the research he claims to have done, he'd have known the names of the people to contact. The article gives zero indication that he did any interviews more than 10 feet from Lynn Wheeler's couch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-33398074533884664352011-02-20T14:58:57.479-05:002011-02-20T14:58:57.479-05:00Peter,
You are a brave man for writing about this...Peter,<br /><br />You are a brave man for writing about this sore subject in Charlotte's recent history. I for one voted against it and was mad about how they went forward with it anyway. I am still not happy with the arrangements. But, I am glad that Charlotte has it along with the light rail! We now just need the baseball stadium built to finish the touch of uptown!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-16918869159894691972011-02-20T13:42:39.846-05:002011-02-20T13:42:39.846-05:00Thanks, Euro.
I hope it's clear in these com...Thanks, Euro. <br /><br />I hope it's clear in these comments that I welcome contrary opinions to mine, and that's something I pursue before I write, too. I was wary of the arena a decade ago - and really, somewhat more recently than that, too. I've had the opportunity to talk to folks who were wary back then, too, and I think their concerns were and are legitimate. <br /><br />Clearly, Anon is not one whom I've spoken to. But there are a lot of people who've shared his opinion then and now. <br /><br />Peterpstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-43061924689405369022011-02-20T13:32:31.052-05:002011-02-20T13:32:31.052-05:00Anonymous 1:22, you don't come off as very cre...Anonymous 1:22, you don't come off as very credible when you accuse Mr. St Onge of "lying" while you hide behind the title "Anonymous". Classy.<br /><br />I have made clear my own disagreement with Mr. St Onge and Ms. Wheeler on the financial benefit (or lack thereof) of the arena, but I would try to stay away from accusing people of "lying" simply because I disagreed with their opinions - especially while hiding behind a keyboard.EuroCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12555177612188585387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-90421377849930318602011-02-20T13:32:26.553-05:002011-02-20T13:32:26.553-05:00Anon 1:22: I didn't say that people requested ...Anon 1:22: I didn't say that people requested confidentiality. I said that I have conversations about issues with people so I can better educate myself. When I want to do a story on a particular person, I ask him or her and they can agree or disagree to be interviewed for that purpose. Otherwise, it's just "What do you think about this topic?" <br />That's what happened here, along with reading and research about the debate a decade ago.<br /><br />Peterpstongehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17339785715553747223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-83613838754607706602011-02-20T13:22:30.252-05:002011-02-20T13:22:30.252-05:00Peter is correct: my $450 million figure is an est...Peter is correct: my $450 million figure is an estimate, but here's how I arrived at it.<br /><br />Construction cost (provided by Peter): $265,000,000<br /><br />Now, although bonds like the arena bonds generally have non-linear repayment schedules, it is reasonable to treat the payments like mortgage payments to arrive at an average figure. Using the trusty HP-12C calculator, the annual payment on a $265,000,000 loan at 4.5% interest for 20 years would be $19,494,907.<br /><br />Multiply that annual payment by 20 years, and the total capital payout is $389,898,148.<br /><br />The city is "contractually obligated" to provide additional police for traffic control around the arena (from general fund tax dollars). Initially, this amount was $808,000 per year (Charlotte Business Journal: http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2006/10/16/story1.html ), and has fluctuated as Charlotte grapples with budget problems. Figure approximately $500,000 taxpayer dollars per year, for another $10,000,000 over 20 years.<br /><br />Running total: $399,898,148<br /><br />The city actually took a loss on the abandonment and demolition of the Tyvola Road coliseum, and the subsequent sale of the land and "obsolete" and soon-to-be-blown-up coliseum. The building cost $52,000,000 which was 100% publicly funded; the city already owned the land. The costs, including interest, of the coliseum were about $65 million by the time it was abandoned; the loan wasn't fully paid off, and city council paid it off out of the general fund (I believe the balance was another $15,000,000 or so) in order to sell the property for approximately $25,000,000 for a net loss of $55,000,000.<br /><br />Running total: $454,898,148<br /><br />Then there's maintenance. According to a 2007 Business Journal article ( http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2007/08/13/story3.html ) <br /><br />"The visitors authority handles security, maintenance and other back-of-house duties at the facility. <br /><br />"Those duties will likely remain with the authority, says CRVA Chief Executive Tim Newman." <br /><br />How much that is, and how much of the CRVA's cost is borne by taxpayers, isn't clear, but how much would maintenance on such a building cost, on average? $1 million per year? More? Say $1 million, which is $20,000,000 over 20 years.<br /><br />Running total: $475,898,148.<br /><br />So, the "public" pays approximately $475 million, while Michael Jordan pockets all rental and other income.<br /><br />Sweetheart deal, huh? Well, it's "sweetheart" for Jordan and the Bobcats...for the city taxpayers, not so sweet.EuroCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12555177612188585387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4069744000849776605.post-55556245354285646262011-02-20T13:22:26.133-05:002011-02-20T13:22:26.133-05:00Peter,
Funny how Lynn Wheeler had no problem goin...Peter,<br /><br />Funny how Lynn Wheeler had no problem going "on the record" yet you claim EVERYBODY ELSE you spoke to wanted to stay confidential.<br /><br />I know for a fact you didn't reach out to the referendum leaders who led the fight against the arena in 2001 - I know that because I am one of them.<br /><br />You'll come out of all this a lot better if you stop the lying now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com