An angry Kay Hagan slammed Sen. Elizabeth Dole moments ago for this new ad linking Hagan to a group that advocates for atheists.
Hagan, a Democrat, and Dole, a Republican, are in a tight race for Dole's U.S. Senate seat.
Says the ad: “A leader of the Godless Americans PAC recently held a secret fundraiser in Kay Hagan's honor.” The spot shows shows clips of the group’s members talking about their atheist beliefs.
The ad continues: “Godless Americans and Kay Hagan. She hid from cameras. Took godless money. What did Hagan promise in return?” A voice that sounds like Hagan's says: "There is no God."
Hagan, on a conference call with reporters, called the ad "fabricated" and "pathetic." Hagan said her lawyers have sent a cease-and-desist notice to Dole.
"I am appalled at Elizabeth Dole's vile tactics," said Hagan. "This is politics of the worst kind."
Hagan said the voice at the end of the ad was not hers. Hagan, an elder at First Presbyterian Church at Greensboro, told reporters that she has taught Sunday School there and gone on youth missions.
The ad was based on Hagan’s attendance last month at a fundraiser in the Boston home of two advisers of the Godless Americans’ political action committee. Hagan said Wednesday the fundraiser was hosted by 40 people, including a U.S. ambassador.
"I had never heard of the Godless Americans PAC until Elizabeth Dole sent out a press release attacking me," she said. The Dole campaign, in an email this morning, says it sent out a press release about the fundraiser's hosts three weeks before the event.
When asked about a Senate campaign that has featured negative ads from both candidates, Hagan said her ads confront Dole on her positions and votes.
"What she's doing right now is slandering me personally and my character," Hagan said.
The Dole campaign said it will respond soon.
(Update: The Observer's Lisa Zagaroli reports that the Dole campaign says the ad was fair game in part because Hagan has attacked Dole for being "in the pocket of big oil" just because some of her contributors work for energy companies.
"She has got some gall after $18 million that her New York and Washington friends have spent attacking Senator Dole saying all kinds of untrue and ridiculous things and to now say ‘oh, you can’t talk about us and who we are raising money from.’ Heavens," said Dole spokesman Dan McLagan. )
Wednesday, October 29, 2008
Hagan on Dole: "How dare she attack my faith?"
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I kind of think it is nice that a politician would listen to atheists. It just makes Liddy Dole look very, very close minded. Kay Hagan is not running for pope....
this is one of the ugliest campaigns i have seen in a long time... i dont think i am voting for either one.... libby dole or kay the fibber
They are both completely idiots. Like most politicians they only care about their career, not the people they serve. You can see how self-serving Dole is by her looking at her botex injected face. She's in her 70s trying to look 30. Her skin is strected so far she's going to have a permanent smile. I say boycott both of them and vote for the gay libetarian dude.
How ridiculous! What does this have to do with how either one can do the best job? Shame on Dole. All this shows is how desperate Dole is - and there is nothing wrong with being an atheist. It isn't illegal. I'm christian, but there is room for atheists, and muslims, and jews, and . . . even Dole. But not in Congress.
Republicans have really become pathetic.....
SEPARATION of *CHURCH* and *STATE*... why is no one getting this? or are all our politicians 'supposed' to be Christian??
Maybe someone should tell Kay that most of us are not stupid and take all the ads, even the ones she sponsors, with a grain of salt. Atheist or not, why was she at a BOSTON fundraiser anyway? She's campaigning for a NORTH CAROLINA seat in the United States Senate and I expect my senators to be listening to North Carolinians, not campaign contributors or special interests in Boston. Folks that don't share NC interests are trying to gain a large enough majority to impose their will on me and I don't approve. I have considered voting for Hagan but her fundraising efforts in Boston, not her religious views, push me toward her opponent. I'm not a conservative, mind you, but neither is Elizabeth Dole...she's a proven moderate and maybe I'll just take my chances.
This is absolutely the worst ad I've seen this election year. I was considering voting for Dole until I saw it.
Oh my golly gosh. A godless hussy running for North Carolina Senator.
Now who could it be that is paying for all those ads attacking a good Christian girl like Libby Dole? Who could it be?
Could it be... SATAN?
signed
the Church Lady
It has nothing to do with "Republicans" and nothing to do with the separation of church and state. It is Dole's last-ditch desperate attempt to find something out about Hagan that can sway some more votes her way, figuring (correctly, I'm sure) that there are more people who do believe in God than who don't. And many of those people would prefer people in government that feel the way they do.
This campaign has been absolutely ridiculous on both sides. I don't want either of them representing me. Harvey Gantt - where are you????
I admit, its a low blow, but to some it matters whether or not a politican will say and do to align themselves with the 'right' people.
As for "Hagan, an elder at First Presbyterian Church at Greensboro, told reporters that she has taught Sunday School there and gone on youth missions." being involved at a church doesn't make someone Christian- believing Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior does. Being an Elder at a church is just like a polictian but for the church. And I know plenty of people who can (and do) teach Sunday school and go on missions but don't really believe in Jesus Christ as the Lord and Savior. They use Church as a social and networking place. So just saying you do this and that isn't the same as saying you believe that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Dole is pathetic, just like her cohorts who seek to divide us. I am so sick of this type of divisive politics.
Dole needs to be retired to her home in DC.
Good point 1:18 - why is she getting money from people in Boston for a NC race? It's just all these special interest groups that are out of state trying to influence tight races to gain more seats in the congress.
Elizabeth Dole has done NOTHING for the state of North Carolina while Kay Hagan has worked tirelessly in the NC Senate for years. Dole barely deigns to grace the state she represents with a visit--she might as well be the senator from Kansas. She has sat on the banking committee in the senate for six years, and when the banks began to fold - including our own Wachovia - she said NOTHING and did NOTHING to influence the process. Dole Pineapple has a stronger connection to North Carolina than does Elizabeth Dole and, based on Dole's shameless attack ads, Dole Pineapple is a whole lot sweeter.
The Republicans are desperate hatemongers -- and sore losers.
Heaven forbid a politician that doesn't believe in ancient mythology!
"being involved at a church doesn't make someone Christian- believing Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior does"
Thank you for deciding for all of us exactly what is REAL Christianity vs FAKE Christianity. Who made you god?
Just one question...
At what point did Jesus tell 'REAL CHRISTIANS" ( The Lord & Savior Crowd) that it was okay to kill other people (war & capital punishment) that it is okay to be selfish and worry about your own needs above all else (anti-poverty help, denial of healthcare for all) and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me where Jesus made reference to God Bless America in the Bible and told you to hate immigrants.
I am a Christian. I am proud to say it. And I am so sick of the Republican Right perverting the message of Jesus to justify doing everything HE WAS AGAINST!
Any Republican who supports War, Capital Punishment, unwillingness to provide healthcare to all and meet the needs of the poor is NOT A CHRISTIAN. And yes, I am pro-life...so dont even go there. There are alot of Christian Liberal Pro-Life Voters who worry just as much about how we treat our fellow humans as much as the unborn.
As far as the ad...Dole crossed a line here. Her legacy is toast.
Before you guys go too far - someone tell me where in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights the phrase 'Seperation of Church and State' appears?
The truth hurts Kay Hagan. Get over it. Kay started the nasty ads anyway. Dole is a better choice. I already voted for her.
This latest ad is absolutely disgusting. Kay Hagan is a christian woman who teaches sunday school. Putting out this ad is beyond dishonest and beyond disgusting -- it's perverse. When did the Republican Party become th party of Perversion. I'm so over it.
"Thank you for deciding for all of us exactly what is REAL Christianity vs FAKE Christianity. Who made you god?"
Actually, the poster is correct. The term Christian means "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ". It doesn't say "one who attends church." Therefore, if you attend church but don't believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, then you are not, indeed, a Christian, you are a church-goer.
Dole didn't say Hagan doesn't believe in God. She ran an ad showing Hagan at a Godless group's fundraiser. What's the big deal? This isn't even news.
I find it more offensive that Hagan has those 2 hillbilly old men on that commercial that supposedly represent the average North Carolinian. She's mocking us folks. She thinks we're a bunch of yahoos.
This woman is the typical elitist that thinks she doesn't have to live by the same rules that we average citizens have to live by. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
In October 2008, The Politico reported that Hagan's husband Chip Hagan III, a former Democratic county leader, had been a member of 1,000-member Greensboro Country Club for years, despite the club's de facto segregation and refusal to admit black members.
http://thehickoryhound.blogspot.com/
As some have pointed out earlier politicans will do anything to get into office.If Dole had been doing her JOB the past six years her record would speak for it self.
Politics 101: If it's politically inconvenient for you to be associate with a group with "Godless" in their name:
- Don't take their money
- Don't accept their endorsement
- Don't fly out of state to go to their fundraiser
- and above all else, DON'T try to cover it up!
Sheesh. Can't anyone play this game?
Good ridance, Elizabeth! Once again you just prove that you are far from being "Little Miss Perfect."
Dole is impacting her legacy in NC negatively for these ads she is running. When she goes back to her apartment at the Watergate after the election, this is how she will be remembered down here as she has done little else to be remembered for. GO KAY HAGAN!!
What is most disturbing about this whole issue is that Elizabeth Dole is attempting to fan the flames of bigotry to win an election - and almost no one is publicly calling her on it. If Dole were saying, "Don't vote for Hagan, she associates with Jews," there would be outrage. We wouldn't be arguing over whether or not she lied to make Hagan appear Jewish. We'd be calling Dole a bigot. And everyone should be calling her a bigot now. Atheists are citizens of the United States, of North Carolina. They fight in our wars, they are members of our community, and demonizing them because of their lack of belief is no different than demonizing any other group based on a single shared quality, be it religion, race, or otherwise.
I used to respect Elizabeth Dole. But now she has revealed herself to be an unrepentant bigot. She should be ashamed. And she should not be in public office.
Neither of these women are worthy of serving in government. Vote in Josephine the Plumber.
this is typical of the way politics are in this state, it is a wonder anyone would care to vote. dole was never interested in this state until she wanted to be senator and said her "home" was in salisbury when we all know she lived in washington d.c. ( and still does) at least kay hagen knows something about N.C. and THIS IS NOT A CRISTIAN GOVERMENT! it is a demcrocy that began when christians tried to tell everyone how to live.
The true, foul stench of Elizabeth Dole and her ilk finally comes out. She should be ashamed, but she has none. If it comes, her loss will be even better than McCain's.
Honestly, you'd think someone with degrees from Duke and Harvard Law would do better. But maybe not.
Liddy Dole, you're anything but godly. Monstrous creep is more like it.
Actually, the poster is correct. The term Christian means "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ".
Exactly my point...and nowhere in the teachings of Christ are the Republican tenets of being selfish and unwilling to help the less fortunate, being excited and proud to go to war and kill people, and believing in the good Ol GOP mantra of I've got mine...screw the rest of you.
Thanks for strengthening my point that Republicans may TALK a good game...but dont act very Christian at all.
More proof that Liddy is a C U Next Tuesday.
I am pretty sure if you asked Kay Hagan if she believed Jesus was the Lord and Savior, she would say yes.
And teaching Sunday school and doing Mission work is her words being put into action...which Jesus would really groove on.
$25 from Arizona to Kay Hagen. This type of behavior by Liddy Dole can no longer be tolerated. This behavior is equal to the ridiculous "Anti-American" accusations made by Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota. Her challenger got a windfall of nearly 1 million dollars. Let's do the same for Kay Hagen. North Carolinians deserve better than the absentee Liddy Dole!!
Contribute to Kay Hagen!
http://www.actblue.com/page/kayhagannc
Actually, there are no atheists in foxholes.
Liddy,
Look forward to a monstrous backfire on this one. I hope you and Bob enjoy your retirement.
Sincerely,
Karl Hungus
Kinda hard to imagine crying foul when in the Dole campaign's defense they did warn you they would make it an issue if you went.
Also, really not smart to claim to be an elder. Female elders make less sense than atheists to most church going North Carolinians.
Although I may not agree with the way this ad is presented. The underlying question here is who does this candidate associate with and who's money does this candidate take. It is fair to call attention to this even if we disagree with how the information is uncovered. This should always be considered in any choice in an election. After all we don't put our faith in these people. We put our faith into the views of these people. Don't vote for the person. Vote for the candidate who has beliefs and values more like you.
mattm @ 1:19pm: OUTSTANDING.
(And to answer your question @ 1:43: The phrase "separation of church and state" does not come from the Constitution itself; of course, the First Amendment does just that. The phrase comes from Thomas Jefferson -- a good source, imho -- found in a letter to a Baptist church in Danbury, Connecticut in 1802, in which he wrote:
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
When in doubt, vote against the incumbent. If you don't get immediate, positive name recognition for them they aren't doing their job.
It is a SAD SAD day in NC that Dole, who I once admired and respected, has sunk to these depths. I thought Jesse Helms died, and with him this type of campaigning. Remember the crumbling "pink" slip in the old Helms ad......how racist was that? And now, calling into question your opponents religious beliefs.......Dole, you're over the edge with fear. This is beyond belief and totally unacceptable. But, as I recall, totally in the negative, racist, uneducated realm of the NC Congressional Club.....Win, lose or draw....be the true lady and person that you are. This is just wrong.
This is the last straw.
Just for the record, it was not a fund-raiser for a "godless"-activist group. It was a fund-raiser that was attended by ONE person who belonged to an atheist group. You're all so sad. I just don't get it -- how you can preach "values" and then so easily demonize another human being. It really is perverse. And if you think I'm using the wrong adjective here -- I'm not. Look it up.
WOW! Muslims use the same arguments to destroy each other! Don't you people know that when you continue to senselessly argue about which individuals among you are closer to GOD, (a very toxic spice in any political stew), you engage in the same behavior as Sunni and Shite Muslims? What great company you keep! And, should we believe, in light of this lowest level of political smear-ads by Dole, that Hagan is being attacked by anything other than North Carolina's little holy warrior? A political bullet with GOD'S name on it is a bullet that knows no specific jihad. It is simply fired in the name of God, by the one who thinks they are closest to God!. You should all be embarressed by Dole's smear. It makes NC look like it employs the same logic we see on the streets of Baghdad.
If you do not believe in the separation of church and state you have any number of models to choose from. In our age the countries of Iran and Saudi Arabia stand out as examples of church/state societies. Or you can refer to historical models of Europe in the age of 100 year wars. The constitution states that their can be no religious test for public office. The founders knew their history and never wanted the United States to go down the path of state religion.
In the early 21st century many on the right want to change this. Already our candidates feel the need to profess Jesus in order to win election. This is a dangerous precedent that will, if followed, lead to the end of our republic that the right so fervently espouses.
Dole is done! Glad kay is giving her a run for her money!
Anonymous said,
"Exactly my point...and nowhere in the teachings of Christ are the Republican tenets of being selfish and unwilling to help the less fortunate, being excited and proud to go to war and kill people, and believing in the good Ol GOP mantra of I've got mine...screw the rest of you."
Just so we are clear. Jesus never, ever said "go tell ceasar to take money from the rich people and give it to the poor." He spoke to individuals and wanted to change individuals hearts about giving. giving to your neighbor is charity, stealing from me and giving to your neighbor is theft. It is not selfish to say I want to choose who gets my money. the fact is that I have "given" more to charity than I will ever pay in taxes, and you know what, the money was better used!!! Jesus spoke to individuals to change indivisual hearts, not gov't.
Also, every study I have ever looked at showed that as a proportion of income red state gun religion clingers give more of their own income (even after taxes) to charity than any other group in the world!
Anonymous 1:18 and 1:25,
Maybe she was at a fundraiser for someone else. I don't think the ad said the fundraiser specifically for her. This whole political campaign season has been full of negative and untruthful ads from both sides in all races.
Dole is a sick, twisted human being. What kind of ignorant person would vote for someone like Dole? My dog has lived in NC longer than she has and guess what...he also has better manners. Dole makes me sick and this is disgusting.
I like how some in the comments dismiss this... but it's actually quite funny. Hagan saying lots of negatives about Dole and now Dole has shot back hard with this ad; it actually hurts her... but not because it questions her faith, but because this association with her and the godless party. This will hurt her on election day since a good majority of Carolians are church going and would frown to anyone that supports an atheists platform. And she can't deney not going to the fundraising event in Boston, because it's true; she made a stupid mistake.
Dole has finally pulled out the trump card, lets see if it works in the next few days.
Concord Rob - excellent point. I give my tithe to my church, which uses the gifts to help those who need it. The more money the government takes from me, the less I have to give. I want to choose who I bless with my gifts - not have the government choose for me.
"No atheists in foxholes"
How do you know objectively that is true? Have you been with every person who has ever been in a foxhole or a war?
Also wanting someone who has the same values as you (which religion tends to be a big part of) does not mean you want a theocracy. It means you want someone in charge who thinks similarly to you. The fact is that religion affects or thinking. That means someone's religious background is worth considering when looking at a candidate.
Also someone's sincerity is important in gauging if you can trust them. If someone professes to be a Christian but also attends an out of state fund raiser with those who profess the opposite views than what she says she believes (atheism vs Christianity), then that seems disinginious.
How can money which is a piece of paper with ink on it be "godless"?
Would that mean there is a time when money is full of God?
Those crazy fundies...no wonder they are made fun of...they just ask for it.
This looks like more playground politics. Kay Hagan is not an innocent victim in this nasty game of campaigning, so before people (Hagan) throw stones at Dole, they need to first look at their behavior. Hagan's ads have been negative and nasty from the beginning.
Dole is just fighting back, though she should have taken the high road here, it would have been better to stand up against the negative campaigning rather than stoop to their level. I expected more of Elizabeth Dole, but it seems her campaign has opted to fight fire with fire.
But frankly if they were in my sandbox, I'd take my toys and go home.
Thanks for reminding us of the definition of Christian: "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ." I believe that Jesus existed and that he taught lessons of great value. Based on the above, I guess I'm a Christian. But, I am also an agnostic - I don't believe there is any evidence that there is or is not this 'God' that people talk so much about. I DO know that according to the bible, Jesus taught that we should all love each other and practice forgiveness. I don't see a whole lot of WWJD-like thinking behind the practices of most politicians, Christian or not. So what does that mean? The fact that the republican participant in both the presidential campaign and this senatorial campaign have suggested directly or indirectly that their opponent is not qualified based on his or her religion or lack-there-of is a sad sign of the state of our nation. Even if Obama were a Muslim (he's not people!) or Hagan were an atheist, why would that be a bad thing? Our nation was founded upon freedom of (and freedom from) religion. Jesus loved people of all religions. So should all of us.
2:12 - Do you agree and/or approve of everything that every democratic politician does or says? Or do only the republicans all get grouped together as having one brain? You also conveniently only point out parts of Christianity that you choose to believe in. I can't find the passage that says "thou shalt have healthcare." With that being your argument, then apparently there are no doctors or nurses that are Christians, otherwise they would be treating and helping everyone free of charge. And, interestingly enough, war and captial punishment are unacceptable but abortion is not? It's okay to kill some but not others?
I was in the garage last night. You can refer to me as an automobile
"Dole has finally pulled out the trump card"
So did YOUR God "ok this message?
Not a lot of Democrats in foxholes either according to the Military Times.
Rob in Concord is right - people will vote for those who have similar views as they do. If you think health care is most important, you'll vote for who also thinks that way; ditto for the economy; ditto for homeland security; ditto for abortion; ditto for energy; whatever. Therefore, if someone is a Christian it would stand to reason they would probably prefer to vote for someone who is also a Christian. It's kinda like the blacks who are voting for Obama just because he is black. (I didn't say ALL blacks) And don't for one minute say that isn't the case.
This is absolutely ridiculous and it makes me sick.
As an atheist living in NC I am ashamed. Religion should have nothing to do with politics and government (see the Middle East).
I'm nauseated by the idea people have of atheists being bad people. And to the poster who mentioned an "atheist platform"...there is no such thing. Atheism is the lack of belief. There is no standard - all atheists are different except for the 1 fact that we dont believe in a god.
Its things like this that put such a stigma to atheism. And in reality, just make religion that much less appealing.
Is there something wrong with being an atheist in this country? Is there something wrong with being a muslim in this country? Is there something wrong with not being republican in this country? The GOP makes me sick to my stomach. The level of hypocrisy is stunning. May Elizabeth Dole go down in flames next week.
Elizabeth Dole and Kay Hagan might as well climb into a mud ring and claw each other's eyes out.
Anon@2:27PM - You do well to quote Jefferson on the separation of church and state. However, you neglected the context of his correspondance with the Danbury Baptists.
The separation that the Baptists were advocating and that Jefferson agreed with was keeping the state's control out from the church. Thus, what they and he were advocating was not the exiling of faith (or people of faith) from the public square, as is the usual meaning of "separation of church and state." What they were advocating was keeping the state's hands out of the church.
"Its things like this that put such a stigma to atheism." Ah...no. That would be things like Communism, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, 65 million dead in the name of an atheistic totalitarianism in the 20th century alone and more sadness and grief than all the Kings and popes of history who politicized Christianity for their own ends. That's what has put the stigma on atheism.
I'd wager there are plenty of atheists in foxholes. Let's face it, God isn't going to help you. You'll be bitterly disappointed if you think otherwise. I found it was tremendously liberating to let go of God a long time ago.
I'd also wager that a large number of politicians don't really believe in God either ... I wouldn't be shocked if Liddy Dole was an atheist! However, politicians all give lip service to God, and try to outdo each other with their religiosity, because they think they have to.
One thing Obama has done is give ignorants the nerve to speak when they do not know what they are speaking about. To criticize now you should have voted 4 years ago. You will have your chanch to gloat next time if you vote this time and win. If you vote and lose, you can critize if warranted. But when you do not know what you are talking about, you should just keep you mouth shut.
To anonymous at 1:30 am...
Hitler=christian. Read any of his writings. He was a devout christian and did the terrible things he did in the name of christianity.
As for the rest...they didnt do their terrible acts in the name of their atheism. They just happened to be atheists. And 65 million dead? Getting into a numbers battle isnt a great idea. The amount of people killed BECAUSE of religion and religious differences stretches into the BILLIONS. Atheism is nothing. Everyone is born an atheist and the idea that being non-religious is immoral is ludacris.
I hope this changed your mind on the idea that atheism leads to terrible things. If you think that you probably need to think about the terrible things your religion has done too.
No God = No vote
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