There was confrontation. There was substance. There was Bill Ayers, but not really. Who won the final debate?
The early impressions:
The words: McCain comes out strong on taxes - forcing Obama to argue the issue in the context of "Joe the Plumber," a businessman penalized by Obama's plan. McCain also does his best job of the debates in neutralizing Obama's efforts to tie him to George Bush. ("Senator Obama, I am not President Bush.") Obama is strongest in the second half of the debate - combining vision and details on energy and using the now famous Joe the Plumber to leave McCain stammering on health care.
The Bill Ayers issue: A surprising non-factor. Obama preemptively brings Ayers up, then deflects McCain's questions on both Ayers and ACORN. McCain attempts to make the issue about Obama's truthfulness, but Obama's answer is direct, believable. The issue is dropped.
The images: McCain is engaging, confrontational, spirited. Yes, he's too condescending at times, and yes, he spends too much time on Obama, not himself. But if this McCain had attended the first debate, we'd have a different race right now. Obama begins nervously, seemingly uncomfortable with the format and McCain's directness. But Obama finds his policy voice on health care and education, recovering to finished poised.
The winner: McCain, narrowly. He didn't get the clear victory or clear moment that many think he needed. He did, however, find the ideological contrasts that might be the foundation for a comeback.
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
The final debate - impressions
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97 comments:
Obama might have been slightly flat, more so than in the first two debates, but he still "won" the debate by any reasonable standard. McCain's stammering, grimacing and near foaming at the mouth could not have accomplished anything more than merely shoring up his base. McCain won no votes tonight and changed nobody's mind about anything. McCain needed a game changer, and despite flailing about desperately and becoming more confrontational, he simply did not get it. Game over.
OMG - did you really come out and say McCain won??? Finally, you got it right. It would have been nice to see this McCain 2 months ago, but at least he's here now. I thought Obama looked uncomfortable and was on the defensive. Several times he looked like a deer in the headlights.
I do wish McCain would have talked about Obama, Reid and Pelosi and the dangers of the three of them controlling Washington. But I was thrilled the topic of the Supreme Court came up - that is a critical issue that has hardly been addressed. Do we really want some of the most liberal politicians we have ever seen deciding who gets to sit on the court?
Sarah Palin is only qualified to be the president of a small school's PTA, but just barely.
Obama had simple, clear, to-the-point answers that anyone could understand. Even if you don't agree with some of the details, he had details you could take hold of and ask questions about. McCain was all sarcasm and politics and atttitude. If he answered one direct question with actual planned policy, it was news to me.
McCain looked like an agitated corpse and clearly was uncomfortable. No surprise because Obama had the best answers on the economy, education, health care and energy.
McCain looked panicked and desperate. He was going for the long pass while Obama was in a prevent defense. McCain killed himself with the Roe v. Wade topic.
Are you kidding? There is no way McCain won this one at all. Indeed, the insta-polls (CBS and CNN) showed Obama won handily.
McCain looked like an absolute fool when he went on about Ayers. Obama owned him there. And McCain's comment about ACORN destroying the foundations of democracy, now that was laugh-out-loud funny!
Finally, McCain really messed up when he basically said the health of the mother was not an important consideration for an abortion. He's not gonna win any votes there.
I think this was the first debate where McCain did not propose a "freeze on all spending except defense and veterans affairs" because as we know, that would do nothing for domestic affairs...
McCain still would not condemn the comments from his town hall last week and Palin's rallies that Obama is a terrorist and "kill Obama". Instead he said he was proud of all the people who attend his rallies. I was hoping he would show the character to condemn this and call for any such audience members who propose such violence at his rallies to be immediately removed.
"Read My Lips, NO NEW TAXES"
George H.W. Bush, 1988 Republican National Convention - was replayed thousands of times by the Clinton Campaign in the 1992 Presidental Election as a reminder of Bush's broken promise to the American Taxpayers.
"If you make less than a quarter of a million dollars a year, you will NOT SEE A SINGLE DIME OF YOUR TAXES GO UP. If you make $200,000 a year or less, YOUR TAXES WILL GO DOWN."
Barack Obama - Second Presidental Debate 2008
I hope Obama hasn't pulled a Bush and handed the Republicans the White House in 2012. It's not smart to lie to the American Taxpayers!
are you kidding me? does McCain seem so desperate that you even venture to say he "Won"?! are you sure this isn't Fox News?! Obama dominated McCain on all aspects.
I was glad to see a productive discussion on health care and education and the differences in their ideas and proposals. McCain is coming to Concord Saturday and Bush announced the No Child Left Behind policy at Concord Middle School. I would like to ask McCain if he would send his kids to Concord Middle School as charter schools are a very limited option for parents in Concord, or would he try to improve the education the kids are receiving in all the public schools.
I think the comment "they call it the White House for a reason" should be removed. It is an example of republican supporters have been inspired by the McCain campaign to spread hatred of others.
McCain needs to get his teeth whitened
Once again, Obama looked presidential and McCain looked peeved
Were you watching the same debate as me? Obama was thr clear winner. He was more poised and provided substenance to his challenges. He adeptly squashed the Ayers issue and delineated his plan for recovering main street. By the way, I am the son of a former KKK activist and a staunch supporter of the Republican party. Race is not the issue anymore... it is middle-class desires for a sustainabe future! One last point...shame on McCain for using "Joe the Plumber" to personify mainstreet America. He makes in excess of $250,000 per year. I consider myself successful and make a six-figure income but it is far from $250,000. In short, McCain's challenges are just not relavent to mainstream America.
If Obama had to answer questions about Ayers and Acorn, McCain should have answered questions about his campaign manager, Rick Davis, and his ties to Fannie Mae until August. He should also explain how he got to know his office manager, Bose, who was sent by Freddie Mac to lobby him not to bring his proposed regulation legislation to the floor and it worked...
McCain really killed himself with Roe vs Wade? Obama voted against a bill that passed the US Senate unanimously, and the Illinois Senate unanimously when Obama left that required medical care for a victim from a botched abortion. He literally is the ONE on this subject and yet he won?
McCain is on too many meds and Sarah Palin needs some meds
Joe's screwed and we all know it. Most on this board like it, somehow this is some grand pay back for Joe wanting to succeed. No sane person thinks spreading the wealth the Obama way is the American way.
McCain can't get his teeth whitened. Something to do with torture you know.
The new GOP catch phrase is spread the wealth. The Dems want to prevent the wealth from being concentrated with the elite CEO's and others who run big business. They want to stop big business from screwing up health care. Those CEO's did not "earn" that money. These are people like the Fannie Mae execs who had chauffers and personal chefs and fires laid in their many fireplaces every morning while forcing the regular workers to go without lunch regularly while telling them they are lucky to have a job. Yea - they sure should spread that CEO wealth!
People are idiots, Joe's business hopes to make more than $250,000 a year, that triggers Obama's Robin Hood nonsense, he admitted, it is on video, he is going to steal to make it better for others.
The Fannie execs were Democrats, all of them. Lovers of Democratic congressmen. But facts simply do not matter to you people.
Money for nothing, chicks for free. -Barack Obama
Fact - Dan Mudd, Fannie Mae CEO from 2004-2008 is a republican. Check the former CFO Lawrence Small, a real piece of work who had Fannie Mae send their plumbers to work on his basement the week before he became "Secretary of the Smithsonian" also a republican. He was later run out of the Smithsonian for lavish personal spending. And yes, I do know what I am talking about!!!
In this debate (in contrast to the previous two) both candidates spoke more directly to the moderator's questions, posed questions to each other, and answered challenges. Obama clarified specifics of his policy; McCain highlighted differences of ideology. It is my opinion that if one makes an ideological choice for president, this debate would clearly contrast the two. However, most folks making an ideological choice have probably already made up their mind.
Obama's policies seemed clear and well articulated, however I still don't know what McCain's specific policies on the economy will be and he didn't tell us tonight. Obama presented a respectful and even temperment; McCain appeared combative and wild-eyed at times. The moderator's question about the ability of the vice-presidential candidate to assume the presidency was a case in point. McCain spoke in generalities about Palin (he is "proud" of her) and then attacked Biden. Yet most Americans are convinced that Palin is unqualified to be a heart-beat away from the presidency.
My opinion is that Obama presented his policies clearly, defended his record, and made a "presidential impression" by both his temperment in the debate and his handling of his campaign. McCain, on the other hand, merely presented ideological distinctions punctuated by crotchetiness.
For undecided American voters facing the worst financial crisis in 70 years, jobs and financial concerns will always trump ideology. On that basis, it seems to me that Obama clearly won the debate.
The republicans are trying the same old rhetoric that got Reagan elected and with some of the same old men. This is not working any more because the voters are educating themselves beyond Fox news and Rush Limbaugh and realized that they are still proposing the same laissez faire bull that put the world in a recession.
I am so excited for election day - we will be finished with republican leadership that has cost us trillions of dollars and ruined many lives with a mismanaged regime change - now we can use our resources to get the real terrorist - Bin Laden!
Mudd followed the Clintonites who set the scam up, watch him grovel in front of the Congressional Black Caucus promising to continue the same policies. Democratic scandal from the word go.
Anon 11:57 -- I am proud to vote for Barack Hussein Obama! Does that scare you? Aww, poor thing...
Gotta say, the Obama haters here tonight are a bit disappointing. Usually you guys are more entertaining. C'mon, better efforts, please!
B. Hussein Obama's autobiography, "Dreams From My Father."
Have any of you read this book? Obama is about to be our next president: You might want to take a peek. If only people had read "Mein Kampf" ...
Nearly every page is bristling with anger at some imputed racist incident. The last time I heard this much race-baiting invective I was ... in my usual front-row pew, as I am every Sunday morning, at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
Obama tells a story about taking two white friends from the high school basketball team to a "black party." Despite their deep-seated, unconscious hatred of blacks, the friends readily accepted. At the party, they managed not to scream the N-word, but instead "made some small talk, took a couple of the girls out on the dance floor."
But with his racial hair-trigger, Obama sensed the whites were not comfortable because "they kept smiling a lot." And then, in an incident reminiscent of the darkest days of the Jim Crow South ... they asked to leave after spending only about an hour at the party! It was practically an etiquette lynching!
So either they hated black people with the hot, hot hate of a thousand suns, or they were athletes who had come to a party late, after a Saturday night basketball game.
In the car on the way home, one of the friends empathizes with Obama, saying: "You know, man, that really taught me something. I mean, I can see how it must be tough for you and Ray sometimes, at school parties ... being the only black guys and all."
And thus Obama felt the cruel lash of racism! He actually writes that his response to his friend's perfectly lovely remark was: "A part of me wanted to punch him right there."
Listen, I don't want anybody telling Obama about Bill Clinton's "I feel your pain" line.
Wanting to punch his white friend in the stomach was the introductory anecdote to a full-page psychotic rant about living by "the white man's rules." (One rule he missed was: "Never punch out your empathetic white friend after dragging him to a crappy all-black party.")
Obama's gaseous disquisition on the "white man's rules" leads to this charming crescendo: "Should you refuse this defeat and lash out at your captors, they would have a name for that, too, a name that could cage you just as good. Paranoid. Militant. Violent. Nigger."
For those of you in the "When is Obama gonna play the 'N-word' card?" pool, the winner is ... Page 85! Congratulations!
When his mother expresses concern about Obama's high school friend being busted for drugs, Obama says he patted his mother's hand and told her not to worry.
This, too, prompted Obama to share with his readers a life lesson on how to handle white people: "It was usually an effective tactic, another one of those tricks I had learned: People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves. They were more than satisfied, they were relieved -- such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn't seem angry all the time."
First of all, I note that this technique seems to be the basis of Obama's entire presidential campaign. But moreover -- he was talking about his own mother! As Obama says: "Any distinction between good and bad whites held negligible meaning." Say, do you think a white person who said that about blacks would be a leading presidential candidate?
The man is stark bonkersville.
He says the reason black people keep to themselves is that it's "easier than spending all your time mad or trying to guess whatever it was that white folks were thinking about you."
Here's a little inside scoop about white people: We're not thinking about you. Especially WASPs. We think everybody is inferior, and we are perfectly charming about it.
In college, Obama explains to a girl why he was reading Joseph Conrad's 1902 classic, "Heart of Darkness": "I read the book to help me understand just what it is that makes white people so afraid. Their demons. The way ideas get twisted around. I helps me understand how people learn to hate."
By contrast, Malcolm X's autobiography "spoke" to Obama. One line in particular "stayed with me," he says. "He spoke of a wish he'd once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged."
Forget Rev. Jeremiah Wright -- Wright is Booker T. Washington compared to this guy.
Anyone that thinks they have a clue what Obama is going to do is delusional. Nothing in his background would make any of his present claims credible. He has masterfully portrayed himself as in tune with Americans, but we are headed to becoming Europeans in our lifetimes.
Betty Shabazz, the now deceased widow of Malcolm X once said that we need to get past the things that divide us - race, religion and gender - and look at the things that we share in common. There are many forces who want to keep things the way they are and they use race, religion and gender to divide us and prevent progress. The right wing conservatives have gone beyond that in trying to put the focus on anything but the issues. Pundits like Limbaugh and Coulter get paid millions of dollars to keep us divided. Most Americans know that this election is about issues like the economy, energy, education and jobs and health care. But there are always the ignorant and divisive few including on this blog...
Looks like Farrakan will be sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom next year. I can't believe anyone in their right mind would vote for Obama if they have DONE their homework. More than half the electorate is ignorant of this guys views and where he will take this country. I'm guessing Jeremiah Wright will also be the next "Billy Graham" of the White House....God help us all!
How long before the White House smells as bad as the Obama campaign plane?
The problems at Fannie Mae began in 2001 when they started targeting their earnings to the point they needed for their bonuses. When things were good they put extra in "the cookie jar' and as things declined they took from "the cookie jar" to meet expectations. Then they had to restate earnings from 2001-2003. The problem at Fannie Mae was greed, not lack of Dem oversight and Andrew Cuomo, the Dem head of HUD, was hated by all Fannie Mae execs.
The GOP paraded a bunch of execs just like that at their convention the night Palin spoke and they called the theme "prosperity". What a joke as those CEO's just took turns advocating tax cuts that help them, but not me.
The stench right now is on the campaign trail with McCain and Palin as they stir up the audience with hateful lies that Obama is a terrorist. If violence comes from this, they will also be guilty of inciting domestic terrorism...
Notice how the McCain supporters have strayed completely from the issues and are now devoting themselves completely to character attacks. Is that all they have left???
I can't wait until Obama is president and Americans can hold their heads up abroad again. Bush and the GOP did more damage to this nation than I ever imagined
When my kids watched the debate tonight Obama looked like a good role model and McCain reminded them of Grandpa.
Problems with Fannie started long before 2001, that is when the outright theft began, under the Democrats. Supervised by a congressional committee on which one of their boyfriends served.
The execs at the convention at least acknowledged they were in it for the money, Fannie was one of those public service sacrifices that the Obamas urge, kinda ridiculous to walk away with 10's of millions of dollars. Makes Michelle's hospital job scam look respectable.
McCain was rude - interrupting Obama numerous times and ignoring Sheiffer's direction . Obama was polite, respectful and honored Sheiffer. Your choice. Pick
On the night before he flew to Washington DC to intervene in the budget rescue package, McCain and his campaign advisor, Rick Davis the lobbyist, were at a NJ casino raking in thousands of dollars. The casino is owned by native Americans and McCain and Rick Davis were there at the invitation of another lobbyist. Remember, McCain sits on the oversight committees for both the Gaming Industry and Native Americans. If he is elected, who really believes anything is going to change???
Yea because all the pro-Obama comments are so classy. You are indeed the people you have been waiting for because your #### so doesn't stink. Put away the tshirts and screams of stone her and then you might get to take the high road.
Sadly, the far right isn't even good at doing character attacks. I mean, Ayers, ACORN, scary black preachers ... yawn ... whatever, guys. Can't you do a little better than this?
The ever-dwindling remnants of the Republican party just aren't very interesting or clever.
The stench right now is on the campaign trail with McCain and Palin as they stir up the audience with hateful lies that Obama is a terrorist. If violence comes from this, they will also be guilty of inciting domestic terrorism...
Somebody call a whaaaaaambulance. An Obama follower got his feelings hurt.
In 2001 we had a republican president and a republican congress. The president appoints several of the board members to Fannie Mae. That would have been Bush from then until now. Tim Howard, also a republican, was named CFO after Lawrence Small because he was also the major stockholder - and this happened under the republican watch just like 9/11, just like Katrina and just like the build-up to the current economic crisis.
Judging from the blogs, I would say the GOP has become a Nation of Whiners!
I consider myself to be pretty liberal, and I think that John McCain gave the best debate performance in his entire campaign tonight. I think he was able to show that he had somewhat of a grasp on the economy, and is not as disillusioned to middle America's issues as he has appeared to be in previous debates. However, I have to disagree that his performance gave him the overall victory.
Within that final hour, Barack Obama hammered John McCain on health care, education, abortion, and the appointment of Supreme Court justices. He came off as someone that is well informed, educated, and fully aware of the issues that plague middle America. The issue was that John McCain desperately needed to paint Barack Obama as someone that is naive, unprepared, and too dangerous to be President. Barack Obama parried that by consistently detailing all of his economic, educational and health care plans, eloquently explaining his policies and their benefits, along with keeping his cool while being attacked. Unfortuntely for McCain, this was his last stand at throwing Obama off of his game, and Obama actually managed to become Bill Clinton to John McCain's Bob Dole.
America needs to focus on the things we all want - a secure economic future, better education and jobs, energy independence, respect for the environment, better facilities for vets and military families and health care overhaul. We do not need divisive political reporting from hateful pundits, less regulation, charter schools that serve the few, drill baby drill, health care controlled by big business and more war. Is it any surprise Obama is leading in the polls by double digits?
How does Obama win on the Supreme Court justice question? McCain put truly horrible justices on the court, because as he said elections have consequences and presidents get to nominate and if qualified the Senate confirms. Obama takes the opposite position, the Senate can reject for partisan political purposes. How is that a position that hammers the honorable position?
>>Do we really want some of the most liberal politicians we have ever seen deciding who gets to sit on the court?
Yes. Liberals made this country the great democracy it is today. Modern (Bush-Cheney) conservatives have done their level best to tear it apart in the name of establishing an oligarchy. You want something done right--build a bridge, educate a child, lead our nation against a foreign enemy, pass laws protecting freedom--get a liberal to do it.
>>McCain still would not condemn the comments from his town hall last week and Palin's rallies that Obama is a terrorist and "kill Obama". Instead he said he was proud of all the people who attend his rallies. I was hoping he would show the character to condemn this and call for any such audience members who propose such violence at his rallies to be immediately removed.
No way, the right-wing racist/domestic terrorist base is now McCain's electoral base. He's running from the same area of the electorate as David Duke and Pat Buchanan ran in past elections.
>>McCain has won all three debates by a landslide. We don't want some foreign terrorist as president. It is called the WHITE HOUSE for a reason people !
Well said, McCain supporter. Delusional, irrational, and hatefully racist all in three sentences. If by some freak of chance McCain does win, you should apply to be Secretary of State.
>>shame on McCain for using "Joe the Plumber" to personify mainstreet America. He makes in excess of $250,000 per year. I consider myself successful and make a six-figure income but it is far from $250,000.
For over twenty years, McCain has been a "kept man," living off his wife's fortune and never needing to actually work. He is the son of an admiral and lived a life of wealth and privilege until he joined the Navy, where he was always given special treatment because he was the son of an influential admiral. He recently said that you're not rich until you make $5 million a year. He has (well, his wife has) eight houses and thirteen cars. Don't expect him to have a clue what it's like to actually work for a living and survive on a modest income. Funny how the "manly men" Republicans keep lining up behind rich, pampered little cowards like Bush and McCain.
>>If Obama had to answer questions about Ayers and Acorn, McCain should have answered questions about his campaign manager, Rick Davis, and his ties to Fannie Mae until August. He should also explain how he got to know his office manager, Bose, who was sent by Freddie Mac to lobby him not to bring his proposed regulation legislation to the floor and it worked...
McCain has, for his entire career, surrounded himself with corrupt lobbyists and contractors, and yet has succeeded in portraying himself as an opponent of lobbyists. Every single senior official on his campaign staff is a current or former lobbyist. The head of his transition team lobbied for Saddam Hussein.
>>Obama voted against a bill that passed the US Senate unanimously, and the Illinois Senate unanimously when Obama left that required medical care for a victim from a botched abortion.
As Obama said, it sounds incredible because it is incredible. Literally. Did not happen at all. Obama voted against the bill because it would have undermined Illinois women's right to choose. The law already protected the victims of botched abortions. He didn't take a thing away from those children. But hey, the lie sure sounds good to hit Obama with.
>>Joe's screwed and we all know it. Most on this board like it, somehow this is some grand pay back for Joe wanting to succeed. No sane person thinks spreading the wealth the Obama way is the American way.
Funny, the liberals and Democrats work for generations to help those like Joe succeed. The Bush/McCain conservatives work like mad to tax them to death, take away their health care, gut their retirement, destroy their Social Security, price them out of the market, and generally drive them into the street. Then they blame the liberals and Democrats.
>>The Fannie execs were Democrats, all of them. Lovers of Democratic congressmen. But facts simply do not matter to you people.
Your facts are wrong. Go check it out. Start with Dan Mudd, the Fannie Mae CEO noted in the next comment.
>>Obama is hiding MORE than his name, but the kool aid drinkers will vote their Messiah in and get what they deserve.
Funny how you McCain folks make some tremendously ugly allegations and never, ever provide a scintilla of support. Easier to throw mud than actually do the work and challenge Obama, or anyone else you don't like, on the facts. And the Messiah is Jesus Christ, not some politician, though I've heard some of your fellow conservatives get pretty het up about Bush being the Anointed One.
>>I still don't know what McCain's specific policies on the economy will be and he didn't tell us tonight.
His recent "economic proposal" from Tuesday was a mish-mash of garbled and relabeled Obama proposals and old Bush conservative nostrums such as a capital gains tax cut. No one took it seriously, and it had sunk like a stone by Wednesday.
>>We're not thinking about you. Especially WASPs. We think everybody is inferior, and we are perfectly charming about it.
This from the long, twisted discourse on Obama's first book. Nice of you to let your inner racist out to play. Next time read the book before you rant against it. Most of the stuff you "quote" from the book is not in it. However, you do an excellent job of recycling the talk radio lies about it.
>>Looks like Farrakan will be sleeping in the Lincoln Bedroom next year. ... I'm guessing Jeremiah Wright will also be the next "Billy Graham" of the White House....God help us all!
You guess wrong. Neither one will be welcome anywhere near the White House. But it's fun to trot out those African-American boogeymen, isn't it?
>>How long before the White House smells as bad as the Obama campaign plane?
And since you spend so much time on the Obama campaign plane, you know this for a fact.... Credit for slipping in the indirect racial slur ("black people smell bad"). I bet you're fun to be around.
Reporter for CBS reported that the plane stinks and the staff is disorganized. Clueless would be the word.
He is a babykiller, the only one, live child, NARAL supported the bill. Spin all you want, absolute evil.
No one has ever said kill Obama, no reporter reports that, it is an urban legend. You guys have very much yelled stone her to Palin.
Wtight has promised that his banishment by Barack the politician is only temporary. Farrakhan calls Barack the Messiah.
OMG!!!!! CAN EVERYBODY PLEASE STOP ATTACKING AND START TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES????!!!! NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHO KNEW WHO OR WHAT SOMEONE SAID WHEN THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES LOSING THEIR HOMES, JOBS AND RETIREMENT SAVINGS!!!!!! ENOUGH WITH THE SLANDER. I SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA BECAUSE HE IS THE BETTER CANDIDATE AND THE ONLY ONE OF THE TWO THAT CAN RELATE TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
I ALSO COULD NOT EVEN IMAGINE IF SARAH PALIN HAD TO TAKE OVER THE PRESIDENCY. THAT IS TOO SCARY TO EVEN THINK OF. SHE IS NOT CAPABLE OF EVEN BEING PRESIDENT OF A PTA. AND I AM NOT ATTACKING HER. THIS IS JUST A FACT. PLEASE THINK OF WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH. TWO WARS, THIS CRAZY ECONOMY, AND GOD FORBID, ANOTHER ATTACK ON OUR SOIL.
WAKE UP AMERICA AND MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE. BARACK OBAMA.
Is your problem with Sarah because she doesn't want to kill babies? Man, that's sick.
Too bad none of the polls taken after the debate or focus groups seem to agree with you. OBAMA won.
Fantastic debate performance by Obama. McCain did better than before but Obama obliterated him by his vastly superior intellect and, most important, integrity, of which McCain doesn't have a shred left. Obama has a heart, to boot. McCain pandered to his base and in the process came accross as angry and easily ruffled. He came on the offensive and soon withered into a twitching, blinking mess obviously trying very hard (and failing) at hiding his rage and contempt for someone who was whipping HIS behind at every turn, intellectually and morally. And doing it in the most dignified, sober, granite-strength way. McCain definitely lost this election - it's going to be a landslide.
Just remember this people....the next time you hear in the news that a federal judge and/or court has ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because of "Under God", or state that a man/woman who was shooting at a United States solider/marine in a foreign country, caught and is now considered to have the same rights as a US citizen, and your blood boils, just remember who you voted for and what type of federal judges they are/will choose. Be careful, you may get what you want.
Last night on the Observer's live discussion of the Debate, Steve Gunn was the moderator and he was very fair and honest in his duties.
A question was asked of those participating: Will this debate change your vote?
77 percent said no.
I then asked the group why they were even bothering to listen to the debate.
The answer from one, and not disputed by the others was: The Entertainment Factor.
From many of these comments posted today apparently that is all this debate meant to them, entertainment. They seem to relish in wanting to ignore what each side was saying and take cheap shots at the very people, one who will be our President.
I do not like either candidate and if this is the best and the brighest each party can muster then we are in for a very bad time over the next four years no matter who win.
I think McCain narrowly won. Since most viewers think Obama won, I disagree with Peter's statement, "But if this McCain had attended the first debate, we'd have a different race right now." According to a CBS Poll, Obama won the debate. Among the undecideds, 53% said Obama won, 22% said McCain won.
Have you noticed the Republicans keep saying, "the last EIGHT YEARS". Translation, they failed. Prior to that was Clinton, amazing the deficit spending party admits thier failures.
Does anyone really think McCain had a chance after the economy tanked? The Repubs are getting blamed, and they are taking it. Only one Dem—Artur Davis from Alabama—has admitted the role of Dems in wrecking the economy. Both parties wrecked the economy. The Dems did it by forcing banks to make mortgage loans to people who couldn't possibly repay them and then silencing regulators who warned that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were crumbling. Republicans ruined the economy by canonizing Greenspan and deregulating the banking industry. We need a third party made of conservative Dems and liberal Repubs. There's no place for anyone with common sense in current American politics.
Who pays any attention to what CBS says? CBS lost creditability long ago.
John McCain looked like a psycho. What was up with the continuous blinking? He looked uncomfortable as well, like he was under immense duress.
Actually Clinton to his credit has challenged much of the fingerpointing, clearly without this happening no sane person would consider Obama, but after hundreds of billions to bail out every loser out there who can really argue over anything other than pie. Obama offers pie to more people, free pie. McCain knows what is coming, but unfortunately not enough Joes to turn the tide.
CBS News is now a racist organization? Reynolds reported the difference in the campaigns and for some reason thought the fact Obama's plane reeked was telling. I used it a symbolic of the smell of surrender and death. That you read race into says more about you, than me.
McCain had a better performace than Obama. He is 1 for 3. But seriously, are we really going to pick our president on a PERFORMANCE. Take some time read what they say as McCain mentiond last night and make sense of what they are talking about. You will realize that Obama's is a "Change" has a "Plan", big freaken deal, What is the change? What is the plan? Does he even know, he sure does not let us know. One more thing Obama's tax policy is Changing and looking more and more like McCains, give the companies tax breaks to keep jobs in the US. McCain said that all along. First debate Obama won but he agreed with McCain on so may topics, it is performance that folks are judging on. READ for yourself.
McCain should have answer the question about whether his VP was qualified to be president with "She is better qualified than the guy standing next to me!"
Funny how the GOP is to the point of personal attacks, and debating over abortion. The voters that are going to vote based off of these scare tactics, and abortion are voters that already decided a long time ago to vote Republican. These issues don't really speak to the undecideds.
Once again, another election where the GOP panders to the pro-life evangelicals, then will surely abandon them if they win until 4 years from now when they need their votes again. It is sad how the GOP uses the evangelicals election after election, then does NOTHING to help them out once they gain office. Kind of like a sick game, playing with people's religious beliefs.
"Anonymous said...
McCain needs to get his teeth whitened
October 15, 2008 11:36 PM"
If Obama wins the government will pay for that with your tax dollars.
Teh McCain supporters really need to realize just how unstable the man really is right now. Why would you want a president that can't focus on the issues that America is facing right now. Stop bad mouthing Obama adb trying to justify people making comments about killing him. You people really need to realize that American will get no where until we come together as a country. Obama has every right to be president just like McCain the question is who is capable of b eing the best president? Obama 08 all McCain knows is how politics of the pass and ran. Look where it has American at today? In a big mess. Go Obama!
I loved the post that said we should essentially ignore Ayers, ACORN, and Obama's relationship with a radically preacher minister. Those are not issues that we should simply brush under the rug. Those are issues and relationships that threaten to undermine the American way of life.
You can vote for a marginal American or you can vote for someone who has served this country, thus clearly having its best interest at heart. You decide....
I plan to vote early today. I’ve always waited until Election Day, but decided last night to vote early after watching the Presidential debate. I’ll avoid the lines and let others not wait in line as long.
I almost didn’t watch the debate, thinking that there was nothing else to learn, nothing else to be gained and a lot of frustration at the political process. But, instead, I was moved by the commanding presence of Barack Obama. At a time when this country is in such disarray, confused by the suddenness and pervasiveness of this economic crisis, a country that is a bewilderment I am sure to much of the world, AND at a time when one would think that any level headed public servant would run as fast as s/he can from responsibility for such a fractured national state, it became clear to me tonight how blessed – blessed – we are to have a person who fills the expectation of “the best and the brightest” the US has to offer who has such a clear gift of leadership. I believe that history will look back at this time of difficulty and reward the leader who is clear, candid, level-headed, consistent and ethical. Barack came through for me tonight as that individual and I am now officially infected with “the audacity of hope.”
We have all these problems right now such as the economy, the war, and our sky-rocketing national debt, and all some people care about is who is "killing" babies? Are you serious?
To Anon at 11:39pm - 'Joe the Plumber' is a real guy in Holland, OH that Obama spent 5 minutes speaking with while stumping there. McCain did not make his up (funny though that Obama said 'Joe-if you're out there"...idiot - you were broadcast all over TV talking to Joe about his desire to start his small business, and under YOUR tax proposal Joe couldn't afford to start his business, hire people AND pay your proposed taxes - of course he's out there.
Joe Wurzelbacher appeared on the Today Show - and seems after his 'chat' with Obama, he's not supporting him.
I don't understand why people think raising the taxes of big businesses (who already pay 35%) is going to help middle America - who do you think employs middle America?
Obama looked smug and self-righteous in the debates and I hope people will wake up and smell the lies...
Obama clearly won the debate against McCain who came across as a confused and grumpy old man.
Obama sealed the deal.
Also, I again want to point out to the readers that all those crazy e-mails that you get from evangelical conservatives who are your family and friends (I have many), who spread those things about Obama are completely false. They were started by an anonymous right wing blogger.
Obama put country first. McCain was too much of a maverick.
Last night Debate remined me of a "Different Stokes Reunion"; It was like an old Mr. Drummond vs. a grown up Willis.....lol
Turns out Joe the Plumber is not even registereed to vote, and the OH deadline has passed.
Priceless.
I don't like eggplant unless it's breaded and fried. Spinach is quite nice sautéd in olive oil and garlic.
Obama was clear and articulate. He was not foaming at he mouth, cynical, desperately grasping or agitated-THOSE things describe McCain. Obama is NOT my first choice but we will be FAR better off wiht him as head of state.
Secret Service: "Kill Him" Allegation Never Happened
imagine that, Obama campaign and media so scared of Palin drawing huge crowds they have to make stuff up to cover for all the "kill bush" chants at Obama rallies and "Palin is a C$** T-shirts and signs as well.
After reading these posts, all I can say is WOW! How have so many of you become so rabid in your fervor that you can make blanket statments that are so hypocritical it's comical? "Republicans are now sinking to personal attacks?" And the Democrats have nothing but glowing remarks for McCain/Palin? And the same holds true for Republicans. Support who you want, but at least be self-aware enough to recognize that making a negative statement that rings true of your party too makes you look like a unintelligent hypocrite.
I agree with an earlier post...if these two are the best either party has to offer, we are in trouble.
Obama wants to take my hard earned money and spend it for programs in which I will never see a dime. Why? Oh because it sounds so good to people when he says he will do this and that and this and that! It costs money every time a new law is imposed or a new federal grant program is introduced to "help" those less fortunate. Help yourself man!!! I'm tired of the government and the government needs to get out of our lives people. Are you so lame that you need the government to hold your hand and spoon feed you every day? I know that conservatives aren't that lame becuase we help ourselves and don't ask for the government to help with every little thing. In the second debate, one girl asked mccain what he was going to do about global warming, the energy crises(crises?), and pollution? Are you serious?!?!? He should have redirected it to her and asked her what as an American citizen she was going to do about these things!!! Dumb liberal yankee democrat! And yes, for the record, the blacks are voting for OBama because he is half black! It is a fact, not just an opinion. And yes, there will probably be a riot after Obama loses the election. In fact, I'll bet anyone on here that that if Mccain wins, there will be some sort of Riot. Put your money where your mouth is becasue I speak the truth and back it up. Also, I am poor and make only 9 dollars an hour, so don't tell me I'm sum rich scum. Happy Thursday people!
Anonymous at 11:49 PM - 'spread the wealth' isn't a GOP phrase. Obama said it himself to Joe the Plumber:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215/
He wants to make sure that 'everyone behind Joe succeeds' at Joe's expense even though Joe has worked incredibly hard for the last 15 years...perhaps those behind Joe are lazy or unmotivated.
How can any hard-working American support the Robin Hood platform of Obama and the Democrat Congress? Legalized thievery-what is America coming to?
After the debate, David Gergen said on CNN that he didn't see much chance that McCain will be elected, that McCain should stop all negative campaigning and do what he can to get Republicans elected to Congress. I agree.
So you agree Obama supports infanticide, it is just not that big of a deal.
What do evangelicals get out of this? Palin and the Supreme Court.
McCain won easily, had he not held back on some key areas who could've landed a knock out blow
I JUST WISH ONE TIME IN MY LIFE
THAT TWO GROWN MEN COULD STAND UP
AND TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR
THIS COUNTRY AND STOP ALL THE SLANDER AND THE SLAUGHTER OF ONE
ANOTHER.IF THEY WOULD CONCENTRATE
AS MUCH ON THE ISSUES WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY AS MUCH AS THEY DO
EACH OTHERS REPUTATION I THINK
WE WOULD BE A LOT BETTER OFF. ANY
POLITICIAN,CEO,PEOPLE WITH A SILVER
SPOON IN THERE MOUTH,DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE NORMAL EVERYDAY WORKING PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY
ARE GOING THROUGH.GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS ALWAYS BEEN OUT OF CONTROL AND ALWAYS WILL BE.THAT IN
A NUTSHELL IS WHY THIS COUNTRY IS IN THE SHAPE ITS IN.TEN BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH IN IRAQI-GIVE ME A
BREAK. LET THEM FINANCE THERE ON
WAR. THEY HAVE BILLIONS IN THE BANK.
McCain did all he could tonight. He made the differences between the two well known. He did put Obama on the defensive. Those are things which will help his campaign. Obama on the other hand looked exactly like he has from the beginning. He did a great job of expressing his point of view. He looked uncomfortable anytime McCain really swung at him. I think McCain won the debate, but I doubt it will change much.
I am amazed at the commentary on abortion going on in this comment area. No you mean McCain came out against abortion???? Really??? Wow I am shocked... He took the same stance that Bush took in his two elections, which also happens to be the stance of the Republican party.
The ultimate problem that McCain loses to Obama on is that simply Obama appeals to the uneducated electorate that will vote in this election. He comes across as more approachable, and has charm. McCain comes across as the attack dog. Since Bush I in 1988, the person who has come across as approachable has won, and the person who came across as the attack dog has lost. Most americans do not care who they vote for based on serious issues, since they don't know or care to know about Joe the Plumber, or Free Trade, but they do care about who sounds better and who is more approachable. Americans want a President who they feel they can relate too. That is the deciding factor. Neither candidate has proposed anything that will be significant to help the economy, or that will really change much, since neither will likely have the votes to push massive health care legislation through congress, or to increase taxes, seeing as though the same people Obama wants to raise taxes on are the same ones that support the DNC and many members of the House and Senate.
Also, Just FYI, which I really believe shows the ignorance of Americans, the President of the United States has no control over the economy, beyond appointing the Fed Chairman. Also the only reason the economy rebounded in 02 was the war which you all want to complain about. Go study capitalism before making yourself sound foolish
You are all like moths to a flame...there is always a hidden agenda with politicians and Obama is the best at disguises I have ever seen. This is the most important election in our history and his policies are too similar to those of Hoover. Look how that turned out for us?
I am delighted that the Charlotte Disturber chose on the side on McCain for once!
You will not pay higher taxes if you make less than $250K a year. I will raise taxes on businesses and corporations! Who does he think will pay this increased tax on business? We will!!! The business will raise the price of their products/services to pay the tax increase plus a little more. Why can't people see that? Business is not in business to pay taxes, they want to make money, and if the cost goes up, the price goes up. We are all in for thinner wallets if Hussein Obama wins.
I watched the debate from start to finish and I got nothing from McCain. He is not saying how he will do anything. He never answered the question about whether he thinks Palin will make a good president and why. Because she is a big joke to America. She has as much brain as a stuff animal. Go Obama 08!
"Joe the Plumber" is NOT registered to vote in Ohio
McCain was trying to convince a guy who isn't registered to vote.
The only Wurzelbachers registered to vote in Lucas County Ohio (the Toledo are) are:
WURZELBACHER PHYLLIS KAY
WURZELBACHER FRANK EDWARD
WURZELBACHER ROBERT LEE
WURZELBACHER KIMBERLY M
(BTW - Frank and Phyllis appear to be Joe's parents)
So "Joe the Plumber" is NOT registered to vote in Ohio. The voter registration deadline was October 6th ... and you can download the entire state voter file from Ohio Secretary of State at
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/cf_ftp/voter_ftp_home?agree_flag=Y to search for yourself.
I think you are biased. If you look back at the videos and the body language during the debate, it is clear that Obama once again came out in a better position. It is also interesting how every other news organization and paper seems to agree with me. Tht's ok, if you need to keep that little glimmer of light and hang onto that.. then you go right ahead and believe what you want to. The rest of America that isn't blind have put in their two cents too.
...............Just remember this people....the next time you hear in the news that a federal judge and/or court has ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional because of "Under God"...............
JUST IN CASE YOU'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK.... NOT EVERYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY BELIEVES IN YOUR GOD SO THEREFORE IT SHOULDN'T BE USED IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
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